When is the rapture?

I know our belief in the timing of the rapture may not be a salvation essential doctrine, YET I believe it can have a VERY big effect on our faith & our spiritual walk… and possibly even our salvation!

Matthew 24 has been pivotal to me in seeing the fallacy of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine that is being so widely taught & pushed by books & movies as well.

If you really think there’s a pre-trib rapture, go & read the plain words of Jesus in Matthew 24 & let me know where you find this rapture. I don’t see it. I wish it was there. Somehow I think Jesus might have mentioned it.

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Instead He said there’d be false Christs, turmoil among the nations, wars & rumors of war, famines, earthquakes in diverse locations…

THEN you will be raptured… um, no… actually it says THEN you will be persecuted, put to death, & hated because of Him.

9 “At that time MANY will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

King James says many will be offended – maybe because Jesus didn’t rapture them away to glory before all the bad stuff started & their hearts weren’t prepared to endure persecution?! They didn’t have enough oil to take them past the midnight hour?!?

20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. -Matt 13 NIV84

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. -Matt 13 KJV

Matthew 24 then goes on to say AND WHEN YOU SEE the abomination that causes desolation spoken of in Daniel – midweek beginning the great tribulation – which means we are HERE when that happens, otherwise we couldn’t see it.

21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

There we are again!

There’ll be more false Christs & prophets (sounds like they’ll be there the whole time too trying to deceive us. Again, us believers – unbelievers wouldn’t care what they said!)

Then immediately after the great distress, there will be darkness. And then FINALLY, Jesus says –

30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a (#1) loud trumpet call, and they will (#2 & 3) gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

Oh look, there we are again!! And He’s FINALLY gathering us at the trumpet call, at THE END of the great tribulation, those that stood firm until the end as He had said!

First (#1) the trumpet sounds, second (#2) those who have died will be raised, and lastly (#3) we who are left will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, PRAISE JESUS!!!

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (some will live to see Jesus return in glory), but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the (#1) trumpet will sound, (#2) the dead will be raised imperishable, and (#3) we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” -I Cor 15:51-54

And again…

15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly NOT precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and (#1) with the trumpet call of God, and (#2) the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still (#3) alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. -I Thess 4

The resurrection & rapture of the saints are tied TOGETHER at the END of the age, the LAST day, after the LAST and 7th trumpet!!!

Picture found here-http://untilallhaveheard1.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/at-the-last-trumpet/

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Sorry if I seem to be beating a dead horse BUT this to me goes beyond how any person may try to use this or that scripture to support a pre-trib rapture. JUST look at the words of Jesus & see what He said. It seems abundantly clear to me!!!

Stepping off my soapbox now…

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About Not Alone

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8 responses to “When is the rapture?

  • watchman73

    I agree. I was raised with the pre-trib rapture doctrine, but after actually studying it closer as an adult, I found myself to be less dogmatic about the timing. The scriptures you brought up are the ones I’ve tried to show others so that they can be prepared if things don’t unfold exactly like they thought. Many Christians don’t even know the last days are upon us, and if they do know, I find most are clinging to the pre-trib with fear of suffering. We should be strengthened by our salvation, and fully ready to endure, and even give our lives if required. Fear of man brings a snare. Thank you again for your work for our Lord. God bless you!

  • Sheryl Wright Stinchcum

    “The resurrection & rapture of the saints are tied TOGETHER at the END of the age, the LAST day, after the LAST and 7th trumpet!!!”

    YES! Thank you for your courage in posting this article. I have heard the pre-tribulation rapture taught from the pulpit but could never find it in the Bible. Why? Because it’s not in the Bible. You nailed it with the “abomination that causes desolation.” To my knowledge that has yet to occur.

    In 2 Thessalonians 2: 1 and 3-4, Paul says, “Brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our gathering together to Him . . . Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.”

    I would like a double anointing of your courage. Blessings to you and yours.

  • Terry Craig

    You have hit the nail on the head.

    Starting in the 1970s, the Church in America caught pre-trib fever. It became further promoted by (and intertwined with) the prosperity movement of the 1980s and 1990s. It’s a truly sad thing that so many people were deceived but that’s what happened. People who wanted to think they could lead comfortable lives of wealth were also ready to believe that they would never suffer, that the Christian life was about being prosperous (defined by them as wealthy). This is what happens when people only have “topical” Bible studies that cover the things that someone wants to highlight while skipping everything else.

    In fact, virtually no one reading the whole Bible for themselves will come up with the pre-trib scenario. People have to be taught to read this idea INTO selected passages and never to give it any critical thought or personal study.

    Sad to say there have been MANY churches in America where people had to state that they believed in a pre-trib rapture in order to be accepted as members or leaders. There are whole seminaries that are dedicated to teaching it. I’ve heard many an altar call with “He could come tonight” as the threat that is supposed to entice people to repent. The Left Behind series was intended to do this very thing. The whole idea is a tragedy wrapped in falsehood.

    Almost from the beginning of my walk wit Jesus (36 years now) I’ve known that the pre-trib rapture theory was incorrect. I also believe that the Lord showed me many things about people in the last days and I wrote three books to show what happens to the church and to individuals when they put their hope in a pre-trib theory rather than in Jesus Christ.

  • Ernesto E. Carrasco, M.C.Ed.

    I’ve been wanting to write about this for a long time. Sometimes I feel like a lone voice in a large crowd of pre-tribers. I used to be one, but as I started looking more closely at the key scriptures they invoke, I noticed that many of the passages have been taken out of context and many are supported mostly by conjecture. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe in the “rapture” (1 Thes 4:15-17), I just cannot be dogmatic as to the timing of it. I hope the pre-tribers are right, but I’m not counting on it. What I believe is that if we are to go through the Tribulation (and I agree that we will for part, if not all of it), God will grant His children special grace to see it through. In the end, Christ will reign on earth! 🙂

    • Terry Craig

      I also believe Jesus will come for His Church (a.k.a. the rapture). But one of the (many) scriptural difficulties in the pre-trib rapture is in saying multitudes get saved during the tribulation . . . then how/when do THEY get to Heaven? There are only two resurrections mentioned in Revelation. The first one (also mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:51-54) for those who are saved. The second is for those being judged.

      The reason we see accounts of believers in the tribulation is that the rapture hasn’t happened yet.

      On the encouraging side is that Scriptures say believers will suffer tribulation but not wrath. (Romans 5:9, 1 Thess.1:10, and 1 Thess. 5:9).

      While some might argue that the reference in Romans refers to wrath in a broader sense, the two verses in 1 Thessalonians place it in reference to the time of the rapture.

      In any case, those who are walking with Jesus (not just some doctrine they can quote) will be ready WHENEVER He comes.

  • Irv

    [Greets, Not Alone. The following spread was seen on the http://www.]

    Pretrib Rapture Pride

    Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
    Ice’s mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn’t find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 – and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers “the early pretribulationists” (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including “Pseudo-Ephraem” and a “Rev. Morgan Edwards,” taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist’s arrival as the only “imminent” event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an “imminent” pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards’ historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google “Morgan Edwards’ Rapture View” and journalist/historian Dave MacPherson’s “Deceiving and Being Deceived” for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
    The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read “pretrib” into phrases like “before Armageddon,” “before the final conflagration,” and “escape all these things”!
    BTW, the KJV translators’ other writings found in London’s famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) don’t have even a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib “proof” in the KJV that its translators never found?
    Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up “Famous Rapture Watchers” (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
    Pretrib didn’t flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby “explanatory notes” in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield’s criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book “The Praise of Folly” which is available online.
    Biola University’s doctrinal statement says Christ’s return is “premillennial” and “before the Tribulation.” Although universities stand for “academic freedom,” Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases – non-essentials the founders purposely didn’t include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
    Ice, BTW, has a “Ph.D” issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn’t authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he’s working on another “Ph.D” via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice’s scholarliness, Google “Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “be careful in polemics – Peripatetic Learning,” and “Walvoord Melts Ice.” Also Google “Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)” – featured by media luminary Joe Ortiz on his Jan. 30, 2013 “End Times Passover” blog.
    Other fascinating Google articles include “The Unoriginal John Darby,” “X-raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrets,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” and “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism” – most from the author of “The Rapture Plot,” the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history.
    Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?
    (Postscript: For another jolt or two Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”)

  • katharinetrauger

    Always thought this. My husband and I taught ourselves for years and never could get how folks thought otherwise. Nevertheless:

    “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36

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